Learning the plus minus system as demonstrated in this video is the second of three important things you must do in order to beat cards.
1. You must know basic strategy
2. You need to know how to count cards
3. You need to know how to deviate your play and you bet when the count is right.
Hi,
I’ve seen alot of people discuss the Hi Lo system for BJ. 2-6 = +1 7-9=0 10-A=-1 But
Personally I would like to see more about the 10 count by Edward O Thorpe’s Original Beat The Dealer Book. I found an upgrade of Edwards 10 count that looks promising. where 2-9=+1, All Face Cards excluding the A’s =-2 and Aces are side counted so you have better accuracy at predicting BJ and Insurance.
Check it out please. I would like to know what you have to say about this system compared to the Hi Lo system High-Low Card Count Shattered
Thanks
SBS, thanks for your question.
I personally don’t know anyone who has ever used the revised 10 count, nor anyone who has used the 10 count, since good single deck games disappeared 40 years ago. That’s why the Hi-Lo count was created… you need a count that keeps the count relative to the number of decks. And the bottom line is that 7,8, and 9 do not have the same dangerous effect on the dealer making their hand that 2-6 have. That’s why there is no current count being used that treats 8 or 9 as the same as 2-6.
The guy on that video seems like a tool. We’ve won plenty with Hi-Lo, as did every other successful team that I know of in the past 20 years. If one iteration of the MIT team went bankrupt, I know many others that made plenty of money (people don’t know that there were several “MIT” teams over the course of 20 years).
Anyway, we’ve had great success with Hi-Lo. His system works, but is not very effective at games with multiple decks, making it not very versitile. Which is why we use Hi-Lo.
Eveyone’s got a system… the question is, will it work.
Ok. So I did a little more research, and the count shown in that video, JSTATII, IS decent. What it lacks in value from lumping 2-6 with 7-9, it tries to make up for with keeping the side count of Aces. So, as I suspected, it’s probably more effective as a Single or Double Deck count. But his claims that Hi-Lo isn’t effective are complete BS (and I don’t mean basic strategy).
I don’t recommend using complex counts, unless you think you’ll only play single or double deck. And that’s a pretty limiting way of approaching blackjack.
I heard of a ten count. it says that nontens get +1 and tens get -2 with a side count of aces. can you tell me what you think
Marko,
Read my comment above.
sorry the page didn’t load at the time and i didn’t see it
ive never played bj b4 until i arrived in egypt and got hooked after watching ur guys videos and i plan on taking it far. im learning fast but i ran into a problem. theirs 2 kinds of casinos one w/auto shufflers and hand dealt. the auto ones deal until they have about a deck and put it right back in so only thing i use is BS. the hand dealers burn 3 cards and then after ur done they burn last themselfs. what advice do have for counting? how does this affect my game? thx.
Isaac,
The Card Shuffler is called a CSM (continuous shuffling machine). It makes the cards completely random and makes it impossible to count. Sorry. Complain to the casino and take yourself elsewhere.
thx admin. but what about the 3card burn at the start of each hand and after all the players are done hitting the dealer takes a card(instead of having it already) when the dearler does the shuffling? how does this affect my counting and or BS?
A 3 card burn is manageable. You have to consider any burned cards at the beginning of the shoe to be equivalent to any cards behind the cut card. Three cards will not effect your advantage too much unless the dealer is already cutting 1.5 to 2 decks off the back.
Thx again admin. The dealer is cutting 1.5 to 2 decks off the back. Do think i should even play bj at the casinos i explained? I guess im screwed untill i get back to the states next year.
Depending on the rules, 1.5 to 2 decks getting cut off is fine.
I don’t fully understand it, if the count is 0+ your change on getting T+ is higher but the Dealer has the Same chance on getting T+
what is my advantage?
And what about online Blackjack?
How does online BlackJack works?
With a positive count, you and the dealer have the same chance of getting tens and aces, however, when the dealer gets a blackjack, you lose 1 bet. When YOU get a blackjack, you get paid 3:2, or 1.5 bets. So you get more for a blackjack than the dealer gets.
Also, with a high count, the dealer will bust more often when they are showing a bust card (2-6).
Sorry, but we don’t deal with online blackjack.
Hi,
I know you said you dont deal with online blackjack but isnt it the same principle? also, once you keep a running count for every single card that comes out of the shoe and you continue that count, how often should you calculate the true count? After every hand? when a full deck has been played? Thanks guys
I can’t really give any advice for online blackjack. As far as we know, there are no regularly beatable online blackjack games.
We know a hell of a lot of professional gamblers, none of which make money playing online blackjack. But if you want to pioneer it, go for it and let us know how it goes.
Ok, I get Basic strategy and counting cards is important . But once we know the running count, what the heck do we do? What does it mean ? What actions do we take for the running count ? For example if its a -2 do we not hit ? or +1 do we hit ? I guess thats where the Basic Strategy comes to play ? Sorry for Rambiling just found the website today and want to learn your strategies so I can be a success in the casino! Im printing the charts and studying them.
Los,
Have you watched all the videos? It should all make sense by the end. Basically, the progression is:
1. Perfect Basic Strategy
2. Counting
3. Using Counting (thru converting to the True Count) to bet when you have the advantage
4. Using counting (thru converting to the True Count) to deviation from basic strategy when it’s advantageous to deviate.
The last COmment in this video.
flipt he cards over.. when u get to the end u should be bale to tell what the card is without even looking at it, at least by knowing the value.”
How do you know what card it is?
Or are you talking about whether it is a low card high card or neutral card?
I think that is what you meant to say. But please clarify
Correct, you will be able to know if it is a low card (2-6), neutral card (7-9) or a high card (10-A). Not the exact card, just it’s value.
sorry for bothering, but are there any more tricks to improve the speed of counting cards? I know that speed comes with practice and I can count them very quickly. But can I improve my card counting speed with some hints?
Practice Practice Practice. The more you practice the more habitual it becomes and the less energy you devote to counting and keeping the count.
I need 20 secs to count a deck that contains 52 cards, is that good?
domagoj – counting down a deck is a great place to start. Now that you’re getting that, move on to counting shoes of cards. Practice practice practice.
Me and my friends are ‘cleaning’ the tables every weekend… We make tones of money… I have quit my job and live better than I was while I was working on the previous job
Well done.
what is this count use for.
ron,
Making money. Watch the rest of the videos.
hi, I dont see how counting cards helps you win the game, all your doing is keeping track of the count but..how does that help?
thank you
BTW Is it wrong that I like this website and I’m only 13 years old?
Eddie,
Thanks for the love, but… http://www.blackjackapprenticeship.com/2009/05/04/so-youre-15-and-you-want-to-count-cards/
Eddie,
They’re “cancelled” cards from a casino. The casino puts a whole in the cards so you can’t sneak them back into the casino to cheat with them.
Natalie,
Watch all the videos… counting cards lets you know when you have the advantage. If you bet less when the dealer has the advantage and more when you do, you can win money. That’s the dumbed down version, but that’s essentially how counting cards helps you win.
alright i almost got this down, hopefully either you or colin can help shed some light on some final tune ups here…first off, i’ve been practicing and find that i may at times be one number off…a.k.a 1 instead of 2, 3 instead of 4. I’ve heard from different sources that as long as you are within 1-2 numbers you should be alright, is this correct? or will it ruin everything?(obviously practice will help, but i can i currently go to a casino in this shape?)
also when you narrow down your true count, you guys really dont go into detail as to what is good and what isn’t…should i be looking for a positive outcome? you also don’t go over optimal betting and instead seem to stick to your concept of deviations…is there a reason for this? do deviations make you equally capable of beating the house whether you have a negative or positive count? i know negative= more lower cards, and positive= more tens, but if the dealer has the same shot as you when the count is high doesn’t it give it the same 49/51 effect your used to? my question is what is the specific method you use to give you that slight 51/49 edge once you know you have a positive true count? do you optimization or are deviations enough to make you win due to however you formulated them?
Max,
Great questions.
1. I consider it acceptable to get off on the running count by 1 per shoe. Any more than that is too much IMO.
2. The reason we don’t talk extensively about bet spreads is because it’s not as clear cut as everything else… there’s lots of variables (rules, bankroll size, risk tolerance, etc). We use powerful software (CVCX) to calculate our bet spreads. But here’s the important thing: YOU WON’T BEAT BLACKJACK WITH JUST DEVIATIONS. You need a winning bet spread. But we can’t tell people, “Just bet this”, because it changes depending on the variables. A really rough rule of thumb is that you need a 1-6 spread to beat the game. There are definitely exceptions in either direction (I’ve found games with an edge of the top, and I didn’t need to change my bet at all; other games demand a larger bet spread like 1-10 or even more). That’s why we offer bankroll coaching or the CVCX software, because you can’t simply follow a generic formula for knowing what to bet. But for training purposes, you can start with a 1-6 spread.
i understand the bet spread pretty well, but after trying it out for a month ive felt more and more like no matter what sive bankroll i bring to the table my chances are slim to win. i dont understand why we keep a count when the dealer takes a half of a deck off for the 6 decks and 4 decks i play, arn’t alll those 30 cards variables that could be holding 30 tens or 30 +1s. also when theres a 3, 4, or 5 + true count and i use the 1-6 bet spread betting for a 5min table, betting $15, $20, $25+ creates a chance i could lose 4 or 5 of those $25 hands and be a down $125 at the end of the shoe. how do you make up for those losses when the count is only that high so many times
?
Dre,
Those are all good questions.
1. The fact that the dealer cuts off a slug of cards (typically between 1 and 2 decks on a 6 deck game) absolutely hurts our odds. But the game is still beatable. Everything we teach takes into account the fact that dealers cut off a deck or so. The odds are still in our favor above a true 1 if the rules are acceptable and you play perfectly with a winning bet spread.
2. You will win big and lose big with high counts. With a true 3, you have roughly a 1% advantage…it’s slim. But with the law of large numbers, a winning card counter WILL win over time.
Here’s my advice:
-Perfect your game (Basic Strategy, Card Counting, Deviations and Betting)
-Make sure you have an adequate bankroll
-See it as an INVESTMENT. Stocks go up and down, but a winning stock will end up positive over time.
Hope that helps.
thank you colin ill keep at it, another question though is about a side bet, would playing an automatic 18 be a good side bet to play when i theres a true 1? or what would be the best time to play if at all an automatic 18?
Dre,
I would avoid that side bet all together. It’s got over a 2% house advantage, and I don’t see how traditional card counting would give you a greater advantage on the side bet. Just stay away from all side bets unless you specifically know how to exploit it.
hi guys ! great website! but I really need a little help from you guys. I dont know if you guys are familiar with the movie 21 , cause Im thinking of creating a team. and I was hoping you guys know when does the spotter signal the big player to join the table? when is count beneficial to do that, I know when the true count is 1 we have the advantage but would the table cool down more easily? So when is it better to signal the big player? true count 3,4 ?it would be very helpfull if you can answer this thank you!!!
Gilbert,
I think you’re getting ahead of yourself. You need to learn to master the basics, then if you really want to start a team and take this seriously, you should get software to help determine your betting (I recommend CVCX). But until each person can beat the game individually, you don’t want to mess around with team play.
That being said, you can wait for higher than a true 1, but you’ll have fewer advantage hands to play the higher true count you wait for. Sometimes it’s nice to wait for a true 2, but higher than that and you’re missing valuable EV.
-Colin
I completly understand you !thats why we are training Colin till we master this then we’ll hit the casino. But when you answered me that each person have to beat the game individually first. that’s a great idea! so you mean everyone should test there skills first in the casino? and by that I was wondering when youre playing individually and you know you have the advantage just double your bet right? because then the casino will notice something If you bet like the maximum right? thanks btw
Doubling your bet is probably not quite enough. Usually you need at least a 1-6 bet spread (1 bet at true 0, 2 bets at 1, 3 bets at 2, 4 bets at 3, 5 bets at 4, and 6 bets at true 5 or higher). But I really recommend using CVCX to figure out your bet spreads if you’re serious about playing blackjack for big money.
ok! tnx I’ll check it out!
Hey colin what is the highest running count you ever had at a casino? Im asking you this because on the deviation chart some deviations are at a true count of 6 or higher. For it to be a true count of 6 the running count must be high like +36 if you are playing a 6 deck game.
Bill,
You would only need a running 36 if it were at the beginning of the shoe. Since the True Count is the running count divided by number of decks remaining, if there is only 1 deck remaining, you would have a true count of 6 at a running 6. Or with 2 decks left, a running 12 gives you a true count of 6. I’ve had running counts in the 50s and true counts in the teens or even higher.
i have watched all of the videos and learned the basic strategy and i can count the cards with no problems im still working on learning all the deviations but right now my biggest questions is if you walk into a casino and the dealer is half way through the shoe how to you pick up the count?
Jessy,
You’d never want to start in the middle of a shoe. Always wait for a new shoe.
Thanks for your involvement on the site! Let us know how we can continue to help you train.
that would make more sense! I planned on just waiting for a new shoe when i started but i think ill just keep practicing until i get all my deviations down. thanks for the help